Books vs. Movies
In this podcast we set out to answer the age old question: is the book really always better than the movie?
Books vs. Movies
Musicals vs. Movies: Wicked vs. Wicked (Film Adaptation) with Moshe Henderson
Join us as we welcome Moshe, a multifaceted theatrical professional, who shares his passion for musicals and their cinematic journeys. Prepare to uncover the fascinating world of theater prop management and how adaptations can breathe new life into stage productions, drawing in fresh audiences. We discuss the highs and lows of film adaptations, spotlighting "Dreamgirls" as a success story while "Mean Girls" misses the mark, and consider the unique inspirations behind these adaptations, including the intriguing influence of self-help books.
Our Musicals vs Movies series takes center stage with an in-depth look at "Wicked," tracing its journey from Broadway glory to the eagerly awaited film adaptation. With Moshe's expertise, we dissect scenes, performances, and the creative decisions that bring this beloved story to life on the big screen. Discover the cinematic magic crafted by director Jon M. Chu and stars like Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande, and explore how film adaptations can expand and enhance the original storytelling, offering new perspectives on cherished tales.
Reflecting on the broader landscape of musical adaptations, we delve into the storytelling strengths of different mediums and the timing of when a story is experienced. We discuss recent Oscar-nominated adaptations and eagerly anticipate upcoming releases, all while focusing on themes of otherness and self-acceptance highlighted in "Wicked." As we wrap up, we invite listeners to join in the conversation, share their thoughts, and anticipate future episodes that promise to keep the magic of musical theater alive and thriving.
Connect with Moshe: Instagram
All episodes of the podcast can be found on our website: https://booksvsmovies.buzzsprout.com/share
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Hi and welcome to today's special episode of Musicals vs Movies. I have here my friend, moshi, hello. So Moshi, as I said, he's my friend, but he's also my co-worker and he just wears a lot of theatrical hats. He's an actor, he's a director, he just started playwriting, he's worked as a casting director. Is there anything you don't do?
Speaker 2:I don't do props, and I always need a lot of props for my shows, as I've been told, so it's a skill I should learn.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, I mean, props are hard, I feel. I mean I helped you with props for your first iteration of Egg.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And yeah, that was I don't know. They're fun, but they're kind of hard too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Gathering things that are from the right period or to make them look worn out. They just add up in expenses and it is I always really do admire. Great prop master.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's. It's definitely, um, a necessary skill, but it's a difficult one, um. So Moshi listens to my podcast. And then he was like I would want to be a guest, but I'd definitely be more interested in talking if it was like I would want to be a guest, but I'd definitely be more interested in talking if it was like you ever talk about a musical and it's film adaptation, please bring me on. And I was like I don't think that's ever going to happen, just because I don't. I'm not too familiar with musicals, but I was like you know what it's, I like the concept, so I'm going to let Moshi kind of take the lead on this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there are so many bad musical adaptations to film. But you know, they provide a lot of access when they're made into a movie and then someone goes and sees the original material and loves it even more. Certainly been the case for me. Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1:Loves it even more. Certainly been the case for me. Yes, definitely. Let me see which one was it for me. Do I have one that I is there, one that you can think of off the?
Speaker 2:top of your head that you were like that.
Speaker 2:I thought, that was great. I think Dreamgirls is one of the best adaptations to film as a musical with really an all-star cast. And then one I recently saw which I'd like to talk about eventually was Mean Girls, which was disappointing because I was so impressed by the stage adaptation, the musical, and then they readapted it to a film again and it was just. It needed an audience. For sure it's, it's that sort of medium. But I mean, that's an interesting uh piece because it's also based on a book, right uvia it is, but it's.
Speaker 1:It's based on a non-fiction self-help book oh yeah, it's actually I. I checked it out when I was like in middle school or high school, thinking it was going to be not a self-help book, and I was like, what is this? How did you get Mean Girls out of this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's interesting. The play that I've been working on, my first original play I stole the title from a self-help book myself, velvet Rage. So I stole the title from a self-help book myself, velvet Rage and it's not. It doesn't even. I mean the themes are similar but I'd never even read the book before I took the title, but it does. It does line up very nicely. So it just shows you that having a great source material can lead to great films, great movies, great musicals, to great films, great movies, great musicals. But the one we'll talk about later today is Wicked, which is inspired by a number of books by Frank L Baum, right, and was then made into another book, which we'll go into further. But I wanted to ask you, now that you're, how long have you been doing these podcasts?
Speaker 1:I just started it this year.
Speaker 2:This year. So really this is a year in reflection.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:I started reading and recording last year, but officially launched it and continued recording it this year, so yeah, You've been so good at releasing them regularly, so good on you for preparing what has been your favorite episode that you've recorded so far.
Speaker 1:After we collided, just because it pissed me off so much like the source material, that's right. Yeah. Yes, I've heard you talk about it a lot yeah yeah, I think that one just because of how, just like the visceral reaction I had to it was just so negative. Um, and then I really liked my erasure episode because I got to record it with two of my book club friends.
Speaker 2:Um, so that was fun the one that became an american fiction right yes yes, I did go and watch that after listening to the pod. Um it was. It was a great film, and I'll have to read the book now too. Right, that's. The thing is, a lot of us see the movies and now you're inspiring us to go read the books. How often do the books um, books usually land in your favor over the movie. Do you have like an odds yet?
Speaker 1:I don't. I will say I feel like most of the episodes I've released this year, I feel like most of the films have won, which is most of the films have won, which is surprising. So maybe I haven't read. I'm bringing in a lot of like books that are new to me as well. So it's not like books that I feel, because I know there's like one, one book definitely that I do want to bring to the the eventually and I don't want to spoil it, but that one, like I hate the adaptation so much. So, yeah, I I maybe it's because I'm I'm bringing in like books that are new to me and not so much books that I like, know and love that have like adaptations that aren't very good, but I don't know. That's kind of how I wanted to tackle it for my first year.
Speaker 2:So is it? Is it film? Are they typically films you've watched first, or are they typically the books and then you go and watch the film?
Speaker 1:That's 5050. Sometimes I read the book first and I find out that there's an adaptation. Or sometimes I'm watching a film and then, out of nowhere, in the credits it'll say based on this book, and I'm just like, oh well, I guess I got to bring it to the podcast now.
Speaker 2:Another one that I listened to your pod and got me to watch the movie was a man called Otto, which I think would have gone under the radar for me. I remember it coming out, but not necessarily being interested in this story, but after hearing your podcast was excited for the journey that was going to take us on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was that one. I'd never heard of that film either. It was kind of just on a whim that Orlando and I watched it and then discovered that it was a book and read it and just fell in love with both.
Speaker 2:So yeah, while you've been doing this series, has your opinion changed on any material you've been familiar with prior, like? Has your opinion changed on a book over time? I believe so, and then on a film. Is there a notable one, um?
Speaker 1:not that I can think of, and I think, like I said, it's because I've mainly been doing books that I hadn't read before or seen before. For the film Um cause, like Nomadland, that's one that I had read before and I that one didn't really change my opinion because I did prefer the book from the first time I read it. Uh, I, I feel like I was so excited to read Lion Maybe that's when that was kind of altered by it. I had been wanting to watch Lion for so long and I think had I watched it when it came out like I wanted to, I wouldn't have hated it. And not that I hate it necessarily, I still. I still like the film. It's a great film. But compared to like the book, I don't know I feel like I definitely would have liked it a lot more had I watched it when I wanted to watch it, as opposed to waiting until now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, something about seeing it in a movie theater right While it's out um gets you sort of swept into it, and when the award seasons come by, it's always fun to uh know what is being nominated. I mean, I I finally, I think caught up on most of the austronoms from last year just saw anatomy of a fall um past lives, um I had, I had seen um the one with emma in it. Uh, poor things. Um, I was really excited about that. But and that was also the season of american fiction, so it is nice to like figure out what what stories are like intriguing people right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And they were quite a diverse range of stories in that season. One of there's there is I think there is Oscar buzz around Wicked coming up. Speaking of films, have you seen any films this this year that you think will be nominated for Oscars?
Speaker 1:I've really only heard Oscar buzz around Wicked. And then I know that the Golden Globe nominations came out, like a few weeks ago, and those are pretty good indicators of what's going to be nominated for an Oscar. But I think Nora maybe ago, and those are pretty good indicators of what's going to be nominated for an oscar. But I think an aura maybe might be nominated, um, but no, honestly I don't know what's going on with like films this season. Usually I have a pretty good sense of like, oh, that's definitely going to get nominated and I don't know, I'm not feeling it this time around, except for Wicked.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, it's been a long time in the making, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:All righty. And then have you. Maybe you haven't even covered this yet and maybe you don't want to give it away, but what's your all time favorite adaptation of a movie or of a book to a movie or vice versa?
Speaker 1:if that happens, that does happen it does happen, but I I haven't read too many books that are adapted from films, so I don't know. But off the top of my head, since I did do this episode this year, I feel like a monster calls. I thought that was just like a really great adaptation of the source material. Um, and absolutely yeah, I think that's. That's probably the one that's most fresh in my mind, that I'm like that was a really good adaptation what was the?
Speaker 2:what was the premise of A Monster Calls?
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure I've listened to this one. It's the one where the main character, his mom, is dying of presumably cancer and a monster comes to visit him and tells him stories, and the stories are kind of analogies to help him prepare for the moment his mother passes.
Speaker 2:That sounds incredible. I think I did listen to this one and I'll have to see it for sure and then read it. I I've been trying to read um scripts, primarily because it was always on my checklist. You know, as an actor, they always tell you read scripts. As a playwright, read scripts. So I've mostly stayed in that um form of books. Um, but did, uh, you met your. You surpassed your reading goal on goodreads this year. Right, how?
Speaker 1:many did you have that? I've read 67 and my goal was 50.
Speaker 2:Nice, that's double my goal. My goal was 30. And to make it I read some things twice for class and then others were like a five page script. I was like that counts.
Speaker 1:That does count, and you reached your goal. That's good.
Speaker 2:I did, I did. Are there any? Well, do you have any favorite books that you read this year that maybe haven't been brought into the podcast yet or haven't been adapted into film?
Speaker 1:No, not that I can. I think most of the ones I read have been adapted into film, and there isn't really any that I'm like dying to see adapted oh, a lackluster season of books well, I wouldn't say it's lackluster. I did read a lot of good books, but there isn't any that I was like. This needs to be adapted yeah, I don't know I.
Speaker 1:I kind of like I love reading the books and watching their adaptation, but I don't know. I kind of like I love reading the books and watching their adaptation, but I don't mind if books just stay books sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you think generally that plays or movies are stronger if they have source material like a book?
Speaker 1:material like a book, not necessarily because I I've seen, like some of the the books that I've read this year, I'm just like, why would you want to adapt it? This is not a very interesting premise, so, like in that case, it's like I'd much rather take an original idea that's exciting and new over something that's like. This book has fans, I guess, so let's adapt it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And I mean writing for film especially is such a different style, like how you're telling stories visually and without dialogue, and then when you're comparing plays to uh, to movies, it's about the dialogue primarily, and if you're comparing plays to musicals, and it's really about the songs and the inner monologues. So, yeah, I can hear you where writing from the medium strengthens the material rather than necessarily having a 300 pages of a book to write from Cause, then you have to be really selective and you know, if that writer isn't necessarily involved in the adaptation, maybe you're not being as true to the material as what they had to say. Do you agree?
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. I definitely think that if the writer is still alive, you should they should have some sort of say in how they want this adapted, as opposed to just putting them onto the sidelines and not letting them have any sort of say. Because, yeah, there's like I talked about knots and crosses and the author, like she, was very much aware that they were going to have to make quite a few changes to bring that to life, but she was consulted on the world and the changes and making sure that she was okay with the changes and the changes and making sure that she was okay with the changes, and I thought that led to a very strong adaptation, despite all the changes they included.
Speaker 2:I have to say the adaptation of Into the Woods into a Disney movie, even with Sondheim's approval, very disappointed with. I mean spoiler alert. But Rapununzel must die, she has to die and even though it was given sonheim's blessing for her to just sort of run off into the distance with the prince, I think a lot of the, the irony and the, the darkness of into the woods is lost in the disney film, unfortunately. I mean people who went to see that didn't even know it was a musical. So false advertising I guess, even though it said based on the Broadway winning musical. But yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess it's hard because the book that I want to bring on, that just like boils my blood because I just hate the adaptation so so much like boils my blood because I just hate the adaptation so so much. Um, the author also gave her approval, her blessing for the changes, and I, yeah, and it's still a horrible adaptation. So I think they should, I feel like they should consult the um, the authors or the playwrights or whoever, if they're still alive, um, and that person might give their approval. And yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll be successful, but I think it helps yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And then, um, if you could adapt any book into a movie, which one would you choose?
Speaker 1:I love Vicious. I think that's my favorite book.
Speaker 2:I talk about it all the time. What's the premise of Vicious?
Speaker 1:That one it's about. So the main characters, victor and Eli. They discover that if you have a near-death experience, you become an eo or an extraordinary, which is kind of a superhero in a sense. Like you gain the powers of the last thing you felt before you died. So you do have to die, at least, like I said, near-death experience you die, but then you you come, have to die, at least, like I said, near-death experience you die, but then you come back to life. So, for example, the last thing Victor feels before he dies is he just wants the pain to stop. And when he resurrects, or whatever you want to call it, he has the ability to control people's pain. So he can either take it away or he can amplify it and essentially torture someone to death just by making them feel pain. So I think that would be really, really cool to see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely as a movie. Do you think it'd be a great play or musical?
Speaker 2:probably not because, there's a lot of uh you can do a lot now with with the new technology for theater, but I think there's some things that's just so much easier to do it on film where you can use cpi or something that, really, even though theater requires a lot of imagination and that's part of what is fun about theater is having it before you um, as we'll talk about, I think, in the wicked review, is that when you get to like actually build that world and do it so beautifully and and make it look real, that's, that's something, um, that I think has always excited people about movies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, do you have anything else you'd like to share about your year end review of of recording um books versus movies?
Speaker 1:no, just because I do have some end of year bonus episodes planned. So stick around for my top 10 uh, favorite books. Top 10 least favorite books, and then favorite films least favorite films.
Speaker 2:So that's coming at you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, I'll see you real soon. And we'll get to talking about.
Speaker 1:Wicked the phenomenon, yeah, so, like the reason I, I I was very intrigued by, like, I would love to talk about musicals versus movies, but I'm just not, I'm, I'm not as familiar with musicals at all. I didn't, like I grew up with Disney films, obviously, and I grew up with, like, Grease my mom loved Grease, um, but otherwise, like, I was not one of those musical theater obsessed, stereotypical theater kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're awful. But, if you're watching this video on YouTube.
Speaker 1:if you look behind Moshi you'll see all his show posters, so they're blurred out. You can still see like the outline of Hamilton.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely Hamilton's there Fun.
Speaker 1:Home.
Speaker 2:Is that Cher back there? It it's share show which I was really excited about and I did see twice. It was fun. You know it's a great, great queer piece. You know all the costumes and and uh, all those iconic songs. Um, yeah, I also have fiddler. Back there here lies love oklahoma, girl from north country, um, illinois. And uh, fiddler on the roof, sweeney todd. And here we are and come from away when it was in seattle tryout. So I'm a big musical theater queen yeah.
Speaker 1:So that that's why I was like that's such great concept, so I don't want to let it go to waste, but it's like I definitely need someone who's more of an expert than I am. So I definitely want to record these episodes with you, but you're definitely going to take the lead in the reins Because even like Wicked, which I've seen twice, I cannot tell you what the changes were. Obviously there was changes because they made the part one which is essentially the first half of the musical, as long as the musical itself. So obviously there was changes, things that were added. I think only Defying Gravity I'll be able to assist with in terms of like the changes, but everything else, I'm I'm still like there was changes. What are they? I don't know. So it's like I, I want, I was like I, I told Moshi, I was like I want to bring your idea to life and I think we can do, like either monthly or bimonthly or whenever we have time, monthly bonus episodes of musicals versus movies, which is why Moshi's here today.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to lead it with the battle cry, right. You just lost 10 followers there.
Speaker 1:No, we didn't. You know that there's a musical theater geek out there that did the battle cry with you.
Speaker 2:Oh, they totally did it.
Speaker 1:Yes, they're out in the streets of New York we were up in the mountains of or the hills of Inwood Hill Park and someone down below by the water was doing the battle cry and I was like they just watched Wicked.
Speaker 2:I know they just watched Wicked yeah, it must be great, a great, uh, what's the word? The sound must have bounced everywhere, oh yeah yeah, yeah, your power there, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, let's end this section what's the word?
Speaker 2:The sound was bounced everywhere. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely your power there. All right? Well, let's end this section of the podcast and record in a little bit. I'm Moshi Henderson, starting with musicals versus movies.
Speaker 1:Yay, and I'm Yuvia. You know me, I'm your, your regular host.
Speaker 2:And we'll see you in a sec.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hello, and welcome to today's special episode of Musicals vs Movies. I'm Yuvia, an actress and book lover based out of New York City.
Speaker 2:And I'm Moshi Henderson, an actor, aspiring playwright and all-around theater nerd.
Speaker 1:And today we're going to be talking about Wicked part one. Ooh-ah, Love it.
Speaker 2:Gotta give that battle cry. And all the different great versions of that battle cry have been done, which Cynthia knocked it out of the park for this movie.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You agree. I do so. This musical first came out in October 30th 2003, with music by Stephen Schwartz and a book by Winnie Halsman. It's based on Gregory McGuire's 1995 novel Wicked, the Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West. When it was on Broadway it got tony winning performances by indina menzel and kristin chenoweth. Um, and now we have this movie that has been long awaited, almost more than 20 years after its original premiere, directed by john m chu, who also directed crazy rich asians in the heights, and um the Step it Up movies, if I recall.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's all about dance and musical theater. Love it. So I have the description of the original Broadway play here. Yuvia, do you want to read that one?
Speaker 1:Long before Dorothy arrived in Oz, there was another story. Long before Dorothy arrived in Oz, there was another story. Wicked explores the untold tale of the Witches of Oz.
Speaker 2:How a misunderstood green-skinned girl named Elphaba and a popular blonde girl named Glinda became unlikely friends at Chiz University. And how Elphaba eventually became known as the Wicked Witch of the West. And then the movie Elphaba, a misunderstood young woman because of her green skin, and Galinda, a popular girl, becomes friends at Shiz University in the land of Oz After an encounter with the wonderful Wizard of Oz. Their friendship reaches a crossroads. So this is part one, and we just got the recent announcement of part two, wicked for Good. That will come out in another year. So this is the perfect first musicals versus movies podcast to do, because we'll get to do part two in a year and it just, I mean again, long awaited. So let's start from the beginning, shall we? So the first song no One Mourns the Wicked. Did you hear when the Queen of England, queen Elizabeth II, passed away? They had this announcement at the top of the show. It's like we just want to pay our respects to the royal family and acknowledge how great she was, and then the first thing that comes out of the musical is good news she's dead. I just can you believe that. It's so cringeworthy, but that is how the musical starts. Um so Glinda, the good witch of the uh the good witch announces to the citizens of Oz that Elphaba, the green skinned witch of the West, is dead.
Speaker 2:What I love about the movie that's expanded upon is you have this gorgeous rainbow field that apparently they planted what nine million tulips to create this setting. So what's exciting about this film adaptation is you get to see more of the land of Oz. You also have the announcement from Glinda at this point in the play that the Elphaba, the Wicked Witch of the West, was killed by a little girl who threw a bucket of water on her. So I love about the movie that it starts this really dramatic tone with that beautiful, beautiful score and also showing the witch's hat mounted in her castle, and you have the flying monkeys, of course.
Speaker 2:One thing I do love about this film is that you get to use CGI right, because in the Broadway show it's a lot of acrobats and in this one they brought back first of all their blue, just like in the movie the Wizard of Oz, which came out in 1939, I believe, yep, with Judy Garland. And then what is really lovely about the film too, is that you get all these great close-ups of Ariana Grande and you can see just sort of you can sort of tell behind her eyes that there's something really upsetting as they burn this wooden effigy of the Wicked Witch. So I think this adaptation from the stage show, which doesn't have this effigy they burn, um, really sets an epic dramatic tone. And and another little nice easter egg from this is they, uh, when the chimes are going the bells, it's a reference to ding dong the witch is dead, which is a song from the original musical uh movie in 1939. Um, is there anything you want to hit on for this first opening number?
Speaker 1:yeah, the um. I did find this other easter egg, which is that, um, glinda is back to the pink gown because when it opened on broadway they went with the blue gown, because I think at the time there was still like copyright issues so they had to put glinda in a blue gown. But those copyright issue I guess it's I don't know if it's public domain now um, I don't remember exactly. But now they're able to go back to the original pink gown that glinda wears in the original wizard of oz film and she stays in pink the entire movie.
Speaker 2:It really is so brandable, brandable. You have green and pink everywhere. Everyone is jumping in on this like phenomenon. This marketing, this great marketing. Um, I also think, um, you, uh. What I do love in the movie too, is they have the bubble. Right, you have the bubble on broadway. Um, bring her down, but they. I love the moment where the bubble goes back up around her and she's about to leave and then says, well, uh, tell us, you know, didn't you know the witch or something, and she's like I can't hear you what. And then she has to pop the bubble again. I love that moment and I think Ariana just has such a great sense of timing and comedy for the stage. I mean, kristen Chenoweth was always so bubbly in the role and I think a lot of her isms have continued through the role, but I do think Ariana has brought herself to it and she's been campaigning for it for what? Over 10 years, since she saw it as a kid. Yeah, she came up regularly to get in this movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm glad she got it. I will say I know there's someone else that was campaigning very, very, very hard for the role of Elphaba and I'm glad she didn't get it, and I'm talking about Lea Michele oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe if they do a funny girl movie adaptation again. She got her funny girl on Broadway, didn't she?
Speaker 2:she did, but she was rumored to be Elphaba for the longest time, and I know, she really wanted it and right now too, there's been sort of a resurgent of the wicked glee versions, apparently on tiktok. Um, I mean again, this is, this is the moment, this is the time to do wicked um, so um. Also another nugget in this opening scene is the melody of over the rainbow. Is um featured in this overture? Um, it's also somewhere over the rainbow is sort of the antithesis, um, or defying gravity is the antithesis to somewhere over the rainbow. Referencing that melody, which we'll get to later, but again, just such a rich source of material to come from from the original Frank L Baum books back in the early 1900s, and he wrote over 14 books and this recent book in 1995.
Speaker 1:So from Really really quick. I think we're switching the frank and the l.
Speaker 2:I think it's l frank bomb that's right because it's exactly alpha is that's where the name comes from. Is l frank bomb?
Speaker 2:yes nice, you got that one in there. Um so um, for the next part of the musical, the stage version, we go back in time. Young Elphaba and her wheelchair-bound sister Nessa Rose daughters of the governor of Munchkin land arrive at Shiz University. Um, elphaba and Glinda clash immediately when Elphaba is invited to join headmistress Madame Morble's sorcery class and Glinda is not. So let's go over that from the movie first.
Speaker 2:What I love about the movie is you have sort of this is it Venice that has all those rivers that go through the city and you get to establish shiz that way. In the original Broadway production there's a lot of gears and mechanics to sort of represent um, this, this, uh, location. But in the, in this movie, of course, you get to build this world even more, um, including the animals. I think there's like flamingos that fly in the opening shot where it says wicked, part one, which is also in reference to the original movie with the same font. I just love that as much as you can do to reference this original source material. One thing I did want to say too about the universal logo that also references the MGM movie, but if you look deep inside you can see the tornado spinning around. I believe in the globe, so it's.
Speaker 1:Oh really, wow, Okay. So now I got to watch it again to look for that um, so um, one more thing they also elaborate on.
Speaker 2:First of all, I thought the way they integrated dear old shiz into the movie felt very, uh, very engaging. I think it's typically used in the musical, if I recall correctly, as sort of a transition song as the set comes up, but this one we see Galinda come into shiz with her parents, which I believe her mother in that is one of the actresses who also played Galinda on Broadway and then we get also introduced to these two new characters that I believe are from the book played by Bowen Yang and I forget the name of the other young lady he's with, but they're for the roles Fanny and Shenshen and they just add these great comedic like improv moments. I think Bowen Yang really, with his partner, has just made it so entertaining. I mean, they're practically the Mean Girls of Shiz with Glinda. So as we, after we come into, after we are introduced to the song Dear Old shiz, we have uh, cynthia and revo make her appearance, um and uh, she, she has that, I.
Speaker 2:There there's a moment where glinda says you're green, and she looks down at the ground and acts and she's like I am, which has become sort of this other tiktok phenomenon. It's just so well done. I think I believe it's in the original play. But I love that. She says, first of all, I didn't like eat grass or something growing up. I just love that, um, or the, all the assumptions and her having dealt with all her life that she's not, you know, sad about it, which which is she's just, you know, she's like she. This is my life.
Speaker 2:But that takes me back to another part of the film that is not in the musical that is featured in. No one mourns for the wicked is. We get to see Elphaba be born that is part of the movie like her mother, with this salesman drinking some green elixir. That is what makes her green, um. But they expand upon that in the movie to have a young alpha bow with uh baby nessa rose being bullied by the kids and you see her first come into her power, um, where. And she also talks to uh nessa Rose about the wonderful Wizard of Oz and this little pop-up bug. This and her being taken care of by a bear nanny really establishes later why Elphaba has such an affinity towards the proper treatment of animals. I love that addition. I thought it really helped us understand who she is and why she eventually does what she does. Do you have anything else to add on that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was reading about the scene where the mom and Elphaba's father get together and I read the book.
Speaker 1:I've forgotten it by now because this was years and years ago. But apparently in the book, like, it's implied that their sexual relationship is not entirely consensual and there's a little little Easter egg of that in the film, in which she passes out. You see him pour something in her drink and she passes out. She passes out. You see him pour something in her drink and she passes out, but it's filmed in a way in which it's like, oh, I don't think he's drugging her, so he's like taking advantage of her, but it's not overly triggering or anything. It's, it's like it's in there, but it's subtly done, um, which I yeah, I thought that was like I, I never, I I forgot about that detail in the book, um, and so I thought that was a smart way to incorporate it without being overly, um, exploitative, I guess yeah, and it, and you can really do that in film, on the stage version, you know they have to sort of like put the glass up so you see it.
Speaker 2:You know like they're to make it, to make it visible to the audience, and in the film you get to have a lot of these subtleties and hinted things. Um, and we also know too, her mother does die, uh, as we find out later in the popular sequence of um drinking. What was it? It was some sort of flower.
Speaker 1:Um, that uh is it the poppies?
Speaker 2:no right it's not poppies, it's like milk, milk, some sort of milk flour, I think, um. But her father, the mayor of munchkin land, makes his wife drink it, um, so that they won't have a second daughter who is um other right, yeah, he's green.
Speaker 2:um, and because of that, um, nessa ends up wheelchair bound because she was delivered too early. Um. So there, I I'm not entirely sure if that's in the musical version, um, but I do love that you that's really present in the film. You can understand again her upbringing and why she does what she does, and and also the guilt she has personally around her sister, nessa rose. Um. So, um, now, as we've talked a little bit about her relationship with Nessa, um, when um in the uh in the movie, what happens is uh, it's her name, it's, it's Kiala settle, am I saying that correctly? Who was in the greatest showman? She gets a nice, a nice uh cameo in this um film. She, uh, she takes the wheelchair, nessa's wheelchair, and is like forcing her to go where Nessa doesn't want to go, because Nessa has her own advocacy and can get around by herself and Elphaba says stop, let her do it, and because I forget the name of Keala's character, but because she doesn't listen. That's when her powers come to form and Nessa is thrown in the air with her wheelchair and what happens is one of the benches that are in the court is slammed against this emblem on the wall that shows like the wonderful Wizard of Oz, and what appears underneath it is a bunch of animals who are supposed to be the leaders of this school. So that's a nice detail. That's not in the original stage production of erasure, of where the school was established and who brought it about. So there's a nice little Easter egg right there.
Speaker 2:And then in this, this film, we also have uh michelle yo um, who is madame morbel, and it's, it's, it's great. Have you seen charlie rap? Uh ralph talk with uh um michelle? Uh, she's like you gotta love this character because she, she says, not you, you, many years I've waited for a talent like yours to appear. Just how bold and brassy this character is. Um, so, uh, michelle um notices her powers and and to not worry anybody, to not make um make uh nessa rose and uh, elphaba outcast says that it was her who did, who did this, when everyone's scared of Elphaba because they thought the powers came from her, which it did.
Speaker 2:So madam Morville takes all and invites Elphaba, who originally was not enrolled here. Her sister was to be personally trained by her and be her only student, which makes Galinda very jealous, because Galinda's here to learn magic, unlike anyone else who hasn't been able to do it, besides Madame Morrible. Yeah, so there, we have established this rivalry between the two of them and this is what leads to the song the Wizard and I. So Elphaba, excited and surprised to discover she might have a talent for magic, imagines what it would be like to meet the wizard who Madame Warble tells her about, and this song is one of the best I want songs. It's rather on stage, it's rather it's sort of a park and bark song, but in the film what I love is that Elphaba she's walking through the university and she sees sort of the reflection of everyone cheering for her, and then she walks outside the university and into this field oh, you got to love a running through a field moment.
Speaker 2:And she starts singing about the wizard and she gets to the cliff and just lets out her big last note over this desert land, which I do believe is a wink to something we're going to see in part two. I do actually believe that's the West. I'm pretty sure I saw a map represented in the film of that area, and what will later happen in this movie, as in one of the new songs, is you see sort of um creatures that look like the same, uh, like sand people or something, if that's a an okay term to use um, that rep that looks similar to that desert um. So I think we're going to get more of a like a background story, even in the second part, to like the people before I think asma who oz is actually after. Maybe that'll come into part two of Wicked, since they're going to make it another three-hour movie. But yes, that song was incredible, a credible rendition done by Cynthia. Do you have anything you want to add onto the sequence of events?
Speaker 1:The only thing I can think about is that she belts out her last note underneath the rainbow, which is a nod to that's right. The rainbow from the Wizard of Oz the movie.
Speaker 2:There's even the rainbow at the very beginning of the play or of the musical, when they're going over that gorgeous waterfall. Again, that's the magic of film is like. Like this fantasy land, you really get to build it. Yes, who doesn't love a rainbow? So much queer coding in this, alrighty. So let's see here what's next. Let's see here what's next um.
Speaker 2:I do want to say what is nice about um, about the film too, is that I feel like the presence of the father, uh, the mayor of munchkin land, is established more that he, really, you can tell when he drops off um, um, nessa rose and umphaba. He tells her to go with her, even though Nessa Rose, uh, has asked to like start this journey alone. And you can really see the sisterly love between the two of them that Elphaba really has been an advocate for her sister, um. But her father, who has such guilt and what am I reading here? So, apparently, in the book that this is based on, he is called Frexpar the Godly. He's a very religious minister who constantly goes on missions to spread his gospel. He isn't rich, powerful or even taken seriously by anyone.
Speaker 2:Elphaba does seem to love her father in the novel, but she also recognizes that his faith in this unseen God doesn't really serve him or his family at all. Well, that's quite a divergence from the book. But what I do have to say again is that the film really establishes her upbringing and why she does the way she does and I suppose some sort of sibling rivalry between the two. Do you believe there's any sibling rivalry? I mean, I think because of the attention her father gives her, certainly, but she sort of dealt with that her entire life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, gives her certainly, but she sort of dealt with that her entire life. Yeah, yeah, I, I mean, I don't know, I don't get this sense that there's too much sibling rivalry. Um, I mean, I'm sure there is. I think that's unavoidable when you have siblings, but I, I, yeah, I don't feel like that's. I feel like Elphaba definitely puts any sibling rivalry aside.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's more looking for a parental figure or some sort of recognition of who she is, and she gets that from Madame Morville, who comes in as a mother. Okay, so let's look at this next section. Who comes in as a mother? Okay, so let's look at this next section. This is from the musical version. The students settle into their routine at Chiz. Roommates Elphaba and Glinda loathe each other, which brings us into what is this feeling?
Speaker 2:This has become a like TikTok dance um and apparently this is the same choreographer, um, who did teen beach movie. So it definitely has sort of like even those high school musical vibes, like when they're in the um in the movie, when they're in the cafeteria like with their forks, eating nothing, you know, it's almost like stick to the status quo from musical or from high school musical. Yes, I do love that. You get to see more of like their rivalry in school, like you get a time passes and you see them like what is the term? They're like in a combat class with each other. And still at the end we get that iconic boo in there there which feels like it must have come from a rehearsal process. I don't know how intentionally that must have been written into the musical, but it stuck with it, um, but it's just such a great sequence and such a fun dance to see. Do you have anything to add on?
Speaker 1:no, I, I. I never realized the song was called. What is this feeling, though?
Speaker 2:I know everyone thinks it's loathing yeah, right yeah, um, okay.
Speaker 2:so, um, after, what is this feeling? We glinda and the other students pay attention to their history. Professor dr dillamon a talking goat, only elphaba is troubled by his warning that throughout oz, talking animals are losing. And the other students pay attention to their history. Professor Dr Dillamon a talking goat, only Elphaba is troubled by his warning that throughout Oz, talking animals are losing their ability to speak. And this is the song Something Bad.
Speaker 2:So in the movie this is voiced by Peter Dinklage, who I do not know why they keep giving him musicals to sing in. I like him, but I saw him in Serrano off Broadway and then the movie adaptation and they auto tuned him a bit for the movie. But he is a great actor, right, and I mean something bad was never a bop, but I do like that. You know we get to see the animals. They're not like humanoid animals, like they are on the Broadway stage. I mean you have to and the Broadway production. They didn't use puppets like you would in any Disney musical, necessarily, but that he's on all four legs and that this universe, his room, is designed for him. You know like he kicks things with his back hooves and he gives them a lesson about, um, all the animals that used to teach or work there, you know, who were treated as equals back then. Um, and then what's really? I think it's at this point, um, where he brings down the uh, the chalkboard and it says uh, what does it say about animals?
Speaker 1:Like animals shouldn't be seen and not heard.
Speaker 2:That's right, which is in no way subtle. Certainly we're picking up on the parallels between discrimination against people who are other. And what else is nice too in this section is they talk a bit about the history of Oz and why there are fewer animals in the school, because I believe they say there was a drought, a great drought, that then people needed someone to blame. So they blamed the animals and excommunicated them. So and what I've heard too about this is that we know that Madame Morble or we'll find out controls the weather, so it can be assumed that she's the one who caused this trap and created an enemy which we'll find out about later with the wonderful Wizard of Oz Anything to tag in here with.
Speaker 1:Nope, let's keep trekking along.
Speaker 2:Okay, so something bad. They expand upon it and they have all the other animals gather and Elphaba. They get to do sort of a puppet show in the movie which helps with seeing what's happening outside. So the students settle into their routine at Chiz's roommates. Oh, I already read that. Now Fiero, a winky prince, arrives at Chiz and invites Glinda to a dance dancing through life. So this is where we get to have Jonathan Bailey enter the scene. Originally this role was played by Norbert Leo Butz.
Speaker 2:Jonathan Bailey, of course, is famous from Bridgerton. He also was in the Stephen Sondheim musical company in the queer version singing what is it called? It's a song that it's what Matt Doyle later played on Broadway. I love this song but I'll move on. Um, but, uh, he, he comes in and I love that we get to bring his horse. So apparently this horse that he rides in on is the same horse he had in bridgerton, um, so that it's nice that he always has that guest with him. I love how they they first meet.
Speaker 2:I think Jonathan Bailey offers a very nice subtle charm. I mean, this is also for camera, so it's different. Right when on stage it can be very superficial and very off-putting. Here it's very cute and they have this scene dancing through life in the library, this new library, which they do really well. They establish it in one of the newspapers. They say new library and the announcement for winky prince coming um, and they've created this contraption apparently for the movie. They call it the tornado actually, where all those books are spinning around um, and it was just gorgeous seeing them, do I mean? And that's all real, they're all you know, it's, they're all dancing with these things spinning um, and what's fun about the movement of this dance too is that you get a lot of hints, sort of going to the posture of the scarecrow, which we'll find out more about in part two.
Speaker 2:Um, with fiero. Um, you also have uh, uh. What's new about this uh, fiero too, is that it's a lot more open to uh, to him being sort of baby queer, just not necessarily being there only for the women. Like everybody in this university, there's a lot of, like, gender neutral clothing, right, people express themselves differently, they have different hairstyles that wouldn't necessarily identify with a specific sex. So that's another cool little development of this musical since it's original, especially since, again, this audience has always been queer since the wizard of oz days with judy garland um, it's nice to have that here.
Speaker 2:Yet this group ironically has, like other um alphabet, um. What's cool too is as we go to the oz dust ballroom, like, you get this really sort of prom setup. You get to see them ride the boat there. And like um, you get an early setup of um galinda getting the flower in her hair, the pink flower that later will be used, I believe, in um popular um. You get the setup with the, with the hat, of course, the pointy hat, um, which, in this version, um bowen Yang brings out and goes like what is that? And I wouldn't give it to the person I hate most. And then they all wink and smile at each other and give it to Elphaba as a gesture to of friendliness. This is after, during the sequence dancing through life, galinda has invited Bach, who is one of the munchkins who has a crush on her, played by Ethan Slater, and we all know about the showmance going on there between.
Speaker 1:Ariana Grande and.
Speaker 2:Ethan Slater to invite Nexa Rose to the dance because she's good, right, and really probably just wants him off of her back. But where am I going with that? It does connect to the plot. He's taking Nessa Rose and, because of this gesture that Glinda has made, nessa Rose compels Elphaba to um to like. See, uh, galinda is good, which is why, um, once she's given the hat by Galinda, she goes to Madame Morrible and ask her to join her studies. Um, for magic, since she knows that's what, um, galinda wants most of all.
Speaker 2:Um, then they go down to the Azis ballroom, which is this gorgeous under the sea room with, with animals playing, and they have this really fun dance. And then then we have Elphaba enter. Right now, I know this, I'm off script, I know what's happening, it's all good. It's all good when Elphaba enters in all black, as she does, with the pointy hat, and everyone's just laughing and quiet and silent around her, and Elphaba realizes that she's been pranked and what's new about this is she takes a stand, she sets the hat down on the ground and she starts doing her little dance. And Galinda, who has just received a magic wand from Adam Warble because of what Elphaba asked her to do in order to thank Glinda, is feeling a major guilt and sorry for having ostracized her even further. So they have the Ozdust Duet, which is a new musical sequence, and they do this really beautiful. It does make you cry. Did you cry, yuvia, at this point, when they're like dancing together, like touching each other's faces with their hands.
Speaker 1:I didn't cry, but it was very beautiful. It was a very beautiful moment.
Speaker 2:And then it then goes back into dancing through life and they all bring those moments of the dance into it. And now, all of a sudden, elphaba is part of the group. This, I think this moment also sort of hints of the rumors of like there being some sort of romance between Galinda and Elphaba that blossoms here, that there's some sort of connection, and that's not necessarily explicit in the musical, but it's also not been denied by the original writer of the book itself that there could be some sort of like, um, lesbian winks here, um, but uh, we then go let me pick it up back up from the musical To okay, here we go To evade her persistent munchkin admirer Bach. Glinda convinces him to escort Nessa Rose. As I said, when a grateful Elphaba gets Glinda into sorcery class, glinda decides to give Elphaba a social makeover which leads us to popular um, this was so well done.
Speaker 2:The all these, a lot of the effects within the show are practical. So all those like pop-ups of the um, of her uh bags that have just now arrived, are real, real props. And apparently there's a lot of people hiding inside these suitcases to make these things pop up. And you this is where you get a wink at the shoes, dorothy's ruby slippers when she offers a mouthful, and they sort of toss them. Earlier we did see the silver slippers, which is true to the original L Frank Baum's novel. That, technically, is what Dorothy has, not these red slippers that came from the MGM movie. Those are still there and something about the design, and those are in the very first sequence of the play. But what's also interesting in the design of these silver slippers is that there's tornado swirls in them Again, all over the place.
Speaker 2:Um, but uh, bringing us back to popular, I mean ariana grande, through this whole piece, has really been giving us her traditional musical theater, um, voice, as compared to what we usually are sort of hearing her r&b, hip hop sounds. We know that Ariana Grande comes from Broadway, from 13, the musical, but I know that she was like, no, I'm going to do the musical the way that it should be done, as a musical, and not with me just doing all these pop ballads, cause she's already done popular with Mika, which is a very fun version of this song anyways. But apparently the mirror that pops up like that's super heavy. Uh, I thought that's just a cool behind the scenes, like how many people it takes to make a film happen.
Speaker 2:Um, and I was told that cynthia also very much wanted to be a participant in her like development, uh, as she's getting a makeover, like not someone who's just like being taken along as sort of originally done in the Broadway show, but someone who's actually enjoying this connection with Galinda after their long rivalry. So this, this lovely moment, and there's so much pink, so much pink in the sequence, and then towards the end, we get an extra like 30 seconds of riffing from Ariana Grande at the end of Popular, as Elphaba runs off, because she's overwhelmed, I guess, by the sisterhood and being seen as beautiful with the pink flower that she puts in her hair, which also gives us a little like ooh, there's something here, there's this little romance, um, anything to add, lovey?
Speaker 1:uh, just adding on to the the slippers that you, uh, that you mentioned. Uh, yes, then, in the original wizard of oz novel they are silver, but they were made red for the wizard of oz film because that, since this was the first film ever being released in color, they wanted something that popped, so they went with red.
Speaker 2:But, yes, the the slippers are originally silver I think it'll be interesting to if they make I, I, if they will make them go red in the movie part two, because in the musical, to sort of nod to the Wizard of Oz which will happen in the second act, which we won't discuss today until a year from now is that they put red lights on her shoes as they are enchanted and give Nessa Rose, spoiler, the ability to walk and she becomes the Wicked Witch of the East. But but, uh, yeah, I'm interested to see if they will stay true to that, like if they'll turn them red or if they're going to just have Dorothy in silver shoes. I think they tease that for the second part. Um, they have finished filming the entire movie, right, they're just in post Um, but it is exciting to see, potentially in the second film, how they will bring more of the Wizard of the Oz elements into the second act, because the second act is typically shorter and again, you're getting another three hour movie out of this, so they get to build All right. So we're almost there.
Speaker 2:Elphaba is distraught when Dr Dillamond is arrested and taken away by the authorities. When she witnesses a government official experimenting on a caged lion, elphaba's anger releases a spell freezing almost everyone in the room. When Elphaba and Fiyero escape and the free, terrified and free, the terrified lion in the woods, elphaba learns to her surprise that she's attracted to Fiyero, which leads to I'm Not that Girl. What I love about the movie how they do this is that they bring the poppies in. She brings poppies because it's earlier established in the film that Dr Dillamon also likes poppies, so she brings him a gift of poppies and then, when they try to take Dillamon away, the government officials, she slams her book and all of a sudden the poppies go floating in the air and they put everyone to sleep, which is a reference to the Wizard of Oz movie and, I assume, the book, the poppy field that puts Dorothy to sleep and the only person who doesn't fall asleep with the spell is Fiyero, which is because she, deep down inside, wants him to help her.
Speaker 2:We also know that this is spoiler alert the Cowardly Lion, this terrified lion who was put in a cage as a cub, who they're going to release into the woods. And a nice little Easter egg here is when they're taking the lion to the forest, they're referencing the Wizard of oz movie, which has toto. The dog with uh is her name mrs gulch, am I? Is that correct? Um, who is doubling as the, as the wicked witch of the west and in the wizard of oz movie. So they have the lion in the basket being um, being uh swept away in the bike, um, so there's just another little wink that gets everybody excited Um, anything to add on there, yuvia.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:All right. So, um, as we go forward, uh, we have this beautiful forest to put together this beautiful set they use in the film. And again, as I said earlier, she realizes that she has a crush on Fiyero. And what's given in this moment too, is there's hinted that maybe Fiyero feels the same thing too. He runs off, cynthia sings her beautiful rendition of not that girl I heard that there were like live birds on the set, um, and they were like singing with her when they were recording this, um, and that just seems, that's just so delicious, um, and then it's nice too that we get to see in this sequence, she's at university at night as she sings the ending of the song, while Vero gathers again with Galinda. And this is where Madame Morville finds out about her powers in the film and writes to the wizard that you have to see this talent that I've been training. All righty, okay.
Speaker 2:So, now that we're being introduced, there's a or, now that the wizard of Oz has, um, reached out to Elphaba, um, they're going to go off to Oz. So, um, this film sequence, we have the uh, we were bringing in a train, this gorgeous train, which is funny enough, it's like, why did Dorothy have to walk the yellow brick road If she could have took the train to Oz. Um, and this is the moment too, where Galinda changes her name to Glinda in honor of Dr Dillamon, who couldn't do the guh because of the way his mouth is structured as a goat. But she does this all to sort of earn Fiyero's attention, who seems very distracted. She says he's thinking more.
Speaker 2:I don't like it, or something around this line and Fiyero comes in to say goodbye to Elphaba with a little poppy flower in his lapel. So apparently here there's also another wink to the wizard of oz. Um, so, uh, glinda once again rejects bach right before she embarks on the trip to the emerald city. In this scene, glinda pulls out a red handkerchief and places it over bach's chest, right where a heart should be, and this is a nod to bach's heartbreaking life and how he eventually turns into the tin man. There's also something early in the film when he introduces herself, where he says I cry a lot, which is also the tin man, how he rests himself up in the poppy field. Um, so, again, another nugget. I think this was a specific moment made for the film. Um, and then we get to, uh, to the song. One short day, which is greatly expanded upon. Um, madame morville informs alpha, but she's been invited to the emerald city to meet the wizard. One short day, um, alpha, but invites galinda along the way and they meet the wizard together. Um, so you have to have this big reveal for the emerald city. Um, there, there, um, there apparently is a library in the emerald city called bombs library, which is a reference again to the um, writer of the original book, um, it's, it's a huge cast and we have a big reveal here. One of the biggest reveals they had everybody cheering in the um, in the, the theater um, was we have uh, this edition of the song um one short day. A they elaborate upon the uh, the book called the Grimmery um, which I believe is more from the original book um of Wicked. So the people who appear in these roles to tell us about uh the Grimmery is Indina Menzel, who originated the role of Elphaba, and Kristen Chenoweth, who originated Galinda, and they even do, and Dina gets to do her little in this sequence. It's just a fun, fun wink to what came before and then also again builds upon this world and our understanding of of why Oz has called Elphaba here. Yeah, the Wonderful Wizard of Oz has called Elphaba to the theater.
Speaker 2:There's also one of the people in the players is Stephen Sater's partner who introduces it. Is that correct, stephen Sater? Or am I referencing Stephenhen schwartz? I'm sorry, I got into spring awakening um, stephen schwartz also makes a um, a uh cameo here. He's the one who says the wizard will see you now. Except he says it with no affectation at all. Um, one of the most iconic lines from the musical and from the original mgm movie. Um, but it's just a great, great moment, uh, hearkening back anything to add onto the sequence that you enjoyed yeah, well, there's, there's two, um, there's.
Speaker 1:So for those of you who are not actors, it is like such a big no-no for you to add anything that isn't in the script. So like you're not allowed to alter a script in any shape, way or form. Like a few years ago there was a high school in Texas that got in so much trouble because they altered Hamilton and made it like religious, essentially Like Hamilton's ultimate message in this version was like Jesus is our Lord and Savior, or whatever. So that's a big no-no. You're not allowed to alter the script in any shape, way or form.
Speaker 1:But Stephen Schwartz did give his blessing for some ad-libs and obviously other changes he also gave his blessing to but one of the ad-libs that I really liked and it's saying something about Ariana's again, again showing off her comedic timing is she actually ad-libs the line when she's getting on the train, when she says, oh no, I couldn't possibly come. Okay, I'm coming. And then she like jumps on the train. Um, so I, I, yeah, that's, that's just funny. And then there's actually another cameo by winnie holtzman in as well. Yeah, she's the, the one that when they show the grimory, she's the one that's like, oh my gosh, it's the grimory on display, or whatever oh yeah, yeah, she's the one that says that line I know book writers do not get enough attention for musicals, do they?
Speaker 2:and they really make or break it. Um, thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, um, so now we get to meet the wonderful wizard of oz. We see the mechanical head, um, and it's, which is what is featured in the broadway stage. Of course, on the film they get to make it that much bigger and they, uh, in this role we have jeff goldblum, um, and he, he's pretty perfectly cast for this role, right?
Speaker 2:yeah quirky um I I really loved the sense of humor he brought. Of course, this was originated by joel gray um this role for broadway um, who was the original mc in cabaret.
Speaker 1:Um, but he sings doesn't joel gray also make a cameo in one short day?
Speaker 2:does he?
Speaker 1:I believe I I thought he was the one that was um before dina menzel and kristen chenoweth came out.
Speaker 2:I thought he was the one that was on the stage giving the backstory that is um, that's stephen schwartz's partner who has okay, yeah, you would think that they would bring joel gray into it too. Maybe schedules didn't line up, um, but um, okay. So, um, um, we meet the wizard. He sings sentimental man, and what's nice about the movie too is that, uh, we get to see sort of the, the entire map of oz. He has like this miniature um setting and he's like trying to figure out what color to make the brick road, and it goes through a couple options um, purple, blue, and they go to yellow. And then, uh, glenn does the one who's like, oh, I like yellow, you should do yellow, um. So there's again another nice wink um, he sings about wanting to be a family man, which we know will come into play in the second part, and I think we'll elaborate on that further when we get to part two of wicked um, and I just think his charm is so lovely here. I think they sort of slowed down this moment. I think it's sort of. You know, in the in the stage musical, um, we're building towards defying gravity. In this version, um, you, really they, they laid the.
Speaker 2:I think the emphasis on, like um, elphaba, who you know has wanted to be degreenified, is asked what she would want most of all by the wizard, and when we expect her to say that, she says I want you to help the animals. And that's just such a lovely moment on film where you see it behind her eyes like she could get all she ever wanted and she decides to do what's good. Um, so the wizard is like, oh yeah, I'm all about that. I had a feeling you would want to do that, so you can do this by, uh, opening the, the, the grimory, which, um, no one's been able to read since the ancients passed it down, and it's been set for him, supposedly the wonderful Wizard of Oz. So in the movie she goes and opens this book and to test the wizard, under the pretense of testing her magical skill, the wizard tricks Elphabaeum to creating an enchanted army of spies for him. So they've said that Chestry, the lead monkey, again who's blue in tribute to the original MGM movie he says, oh, he's always wanted to fly and you can tell that just if I'm saying that right, chestry is like there's something behind his eyes that is like either playing along or, you know, isn't, isn't on board, but helpful, by thinking that's what he wants, cast the spell and is in. The words are just coming to her and the monkey grows wings, but he's like in pain and she wants to stop him and stop it. And we learn from Adam Orville that there's no, that you can't undo a magic spell from the Grimmery. And then, once she starts hearing screaming from another room, they realize all the monkey army has been turned, has wings. And then they learn of their evil intent to create spies with the monkeys. And Elphaba realizes that in the movie the wizard can't even read the Grimory himself and that he's been a con this entire time. So from the musical setup, elphaba is shocked to realize that the wizard has encouraged anti-animal sentiment to strengthen his own political support. As Madame Morville denounces her to the public as a wicked witch, elphaba bows to fight the wizard's injustice. And that leads us to Defying Gravity.
Speaker 2:Um, so, um, we get this lovely. I mean they, they take Defying Gravity, which is like a five minute song, it's like a 15 minute sequence in the film and it's it's a really great chance to like a great chase sequence. Um, we get to see the, uh, the madam marble, um, threatens the monkey saying if you ever, uh, if you care for your family. You'll do this and get this week, uh, this, this woman, so they chase after her. They're not on her side right away like they are in the musical um, and then you get to see the air balloon that um Oz came in on, um.
Speaker 2:You get a wink to um, I believe, uh, I think his name is Osbaum um, is it? Or you get a wink to his history, his um, how he used to be in like a traveling show. There's a poster when they're in the attic of um, of the circus act to use to be a part of um, the, the um, yeah, so we get to. We get to go into defying gravity, um, which is just the best song from yes, um. Is there anything you want to uh to discuss first before we go into that?
Speaker 1:No, just I mean, defying Gravity is just, it's on a whole other level. Yeah, I really really liked the film, but I, I was starting to get like antsy because it's such a long film. And yeah, there did reach a point where it was like all the songs are great Don't get me wrong and the story is great, but I I everyone loves Defying Gravity. And so it did reach a point where I was like we're getting close to it, just give me to find gravity, yeah.
Speaker 2:I do have a correction here. His name is an Osbaum. His name in in the real world is Oscar Dix. All right, from Omaha, yeah, nodding to the wizard's origin story, um, so I mean what? What can you even say about defying gravity? You, you get, uh, to see the broom um, and instead of her growing wings, uh, it enchants the broom um.
Speaker 2:You get the introduction to the cape, which is also in the musical, where Glinda, or Glinda at this point, gives her the cape to keep her warm. And there's really this nice moment of we could have first of all again, glinda's like, just do what the wizard asks, you could have everything you ever wanted. It's you're, you're flying off the handle, um and um, elphaba decides to do what's right and invites her to come with her, and they could be so powerful. And there's, there's this moment. We see where glinda entertains it, um and but makes her choice to stay and wishes Elphaba the best. So, as the guards are coming for Elphaba, she is running from them and she jumps off the building. Essentially, and you see her for this long sequence. It's not, of course, in the stage production. You see her in this long sequence. It's not, of course in the stage production you see her in a reflection as she's going down the buildings. She sees her inner child and she learns how to control her magic, because before she, she didn't know how to, was only brought about when she would get angry or frustrated. Now she's able to summon all her powers by, you know, being with that inner child, and she flies on the broom. As she's making her escape, she says nobody in all of Oz, no wizard that there is or was is ever going to bring me down. And what I love about this movie is like, as she gains her power is like all the power in Oz, like the electricity goes out, it's like blowing up. The monkeys are chasing her Um and um. She's there, away from the tower, just floating um in the air, um, and she sings uh, look to the Western sky. It's just such a great moment that even on stage it's beautiful, it's lovely. She goes up on one of those cranes which is hidden by her large cape and she's flying and it's such a moving moment and on camera it's even more so.
Speaker 2:I have to say this is one of my favorite parts of the show overall too, because when, um, madame morbel uh turns against her um and they literally conduct a witch hunt.
Speaker 2:There's just something that I brought my family to see when they were here in new york and I'm like this is this, is this is tied to real life, you know, like this, um, this making an other of someone, this because of the way they're born, um, as a queer person, that always resonated with me. And this, like this hate that Madame Morville spits, it always just like gets to me at this moment, and how elf, uh, elphaba, decides to like stand her ground, be who she is and do what she thinks is right, um, that that just always, you know, gets all the emotions going. Um, and with the film, we also get this sort of building up to her flying. We get, uh, a repeat of the unlimited melody that builds to her powerhouse battle cry, which we've all heard so many times. And and that's where we leave off on the film, just like this big leaping off the cliff moment that, I think, is really setting us up for a great part too.
Speaker 2:I think I had, I think this film really exceeded people's expectations, true to the original material and true to the MGM movie that I, I I hope they can, you know, knock it out of the park for the second part, wicked for good. In a year from now, yuvia, do you have anything else to add onto this film?
Speaker 1:It's yeah, it was great, it was a fantastic film. Definitely, Definitely, and yeah, I can see why it's the best like number one selling musical movie ever. I think at this point it's breaking so many records and it's getting so many Oscar nods. Already People think that Cynthia and Ariana are going to be nominated for Oscars for their performance. I would love to see them take it. I'm not sure if they will, just because the Oscars don't necessarily the Oscars like dramatic performances, not so much comedic or musical, which is you know which is its own category Comedy and musical are paired together.
Speaker 1:In the Golden Globes, not in the Oscars. Yeah, so they'll probably win a Golden Globe Oscar. Yeah, not sure they will, they should Oscar. Yeah, not sure they will, they should. I think it is a little silly that so many great performances are overlooked because they're not dramatic or whatever. I think Marissa Tomei is the only one that has won for a comedic performance for my Cousin, vinny, and that was a controversial win. A lot of people are not happy that she won, but yeah, and that was a controversial win. A lot of people are not happy that she won um, but yeah, um. So it is a fantastic, fantastic film and I did enjoy it. I did. I did start feeling the length of it towards the end, um, but otherwise it was still good. It wasn't like the antsiness was more of like I think I I've been sitting too long, not so much of like when is this damn thing going to be over, or anything like that in musical theater.
Speaker 2:This is like the first thing everyone introduces to you and you, honestly, you know you get tired of it. But then I think all these musical theater kids have come back into the fold and maybe people will come back to theater because of this major hit. I mean, I know wicked has always had a pretty good house, but I in the most recent broadway reports it's like packed um. So maybe there'll be a resurgence in theater and a love for musical theater again, which there used to be so much in the 40s and 50s, like that was pop and and um. I'm excited to see what what this film will inspire for another generation of musical lovers and and film lovers. Um, so, yeah, it's. Um the so for the golden gloves, it's, yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:I think it's nominated for, uh, musical or comedy, best motion picture, best actress for cynthia. Um, best supporting actress for ariana. And uh, it's got a cinematic and box office achievement honoring the film's significant impact, both artistically and commercially. Yeah, love it. Love it Anything else, yuvia, oh, we have to rate it. We have to compare it to the musical. Now, this is only part one, yeah, and the musical as a whole is so revolutionary it didn't win Best Musical in its time. Avenue Q actually did, but I think the movie sort of takes it for me because you get to expand upon the universe and I think the movie's my favorite so far. Maybe part two I'll go back to the original stage show. How about for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think I still really, really, really love the stage version of this. The film is fantastic, don't get me wrong, um, but I I think I would go with the original. Maybe. Maybe it'll change for me once, once we get you know part one and part two and we can compare it as a whole to the original. Um, but yeah, I think, I think for me right now it's the, the stage adaptation. Yeah, stage adaptation.
Speaker 2:Stage adaptation of the book, for sure, all righty. Well, you're the one who typically signs us out. What do you have to say? And I'll join you.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for joining me for this and for being game to do musicals versus movies. Do you have any idea of what the next one you want to talk about is going to be? I?
Speaker 2:I don't know if it'll be the next one, but I do have some. That I would love to address maybe in the next year is Les Mis I am yeah, I'll give my opinions then. Mean Girls Dream Girls Into the Woods. Like any of the Sondheim adaptations, it's interesting to see films that were made closer to the release of the original musicals versus musicals that have been around for decades and now have their adaptation with all the history that comes behind it.
Speaker 2:I'm excited to talk about the different casts and what people bring to the role. It's interesting because what's beautiful about stage is you get to get so many people's interpretation. Just by someone merely stepping into the role, it becomes a unique performance and in film that's the version you're going to get. You get it forever, but it's such a big deal. Oh, one for sure. One of my favorites is Sweeney Todd. I think that's an excellent adaptation to film for a thriller. Yeah, so I can't wait to do more of these in the future. So thank you for hearing me rant and talk and talk like a musical theater geek about this musical and more to come.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I'm excited, and otherwise, all you gotta say is, if you enjoyed this episode, if you're looking forward to future musical versus movies episode, please leave a rating and a review to this for this podcast. If you have any requests, anything, just let us know. And yeah, is there anything else you'd like to add?
Speaker 2:you can do the with me I. I'm not a singer, so I'll let you do that oh, I don't have my full voice, but I'll go out on it.
Speaker 1:So down, boom all right, love it. See everyone next time. Thank you, bye.