Books vs. Movies
In this podcast we set out to answer the age old question: is the book really always better than the movie?
Books vs. Movies
Ep. 33 Romper el Circulo (It Ends With Us) by Colleen Hoover vs. It Ends With Us (2024)
Can a story about abuse be labeled a romance? Join me, Lluvia, as I traverse the controversial terrain of Colleen Hoover's novel "It Ends With Us" and its 2024 film adaptation featuring Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. My initial hesitation to engage with this narrative transforms into a curiosity-driven exploration of its complex themes. We'll dissect Lily Blossom Bloom's turbulent relationships with Ryle Kincaid and Atlas Corrigan, scrutinizing how the film adaptation aligns with and diverges from the book's original story line. From the exclusion of Ellen DeGeneres diary entries to Lily’s entrepreneurial shift, each narrative choice paints a refreshed, yet faithful picture.
Together, we’ll question the portrayal of abuse in the story and its implications on perceptions of romance. Drawing parallels with narratives like "After We Collided," I present my perspective on whether Hoover's story glamorizes abusive relationships or offers a nuanced look into the protagonist Lily’s struggles. The film's flashbacks and streamlined plot provide a different lens through which to view Lily's world, emphasizing the emotional weight of her decision to break the cycle of abuse. These narrative choices, along with the altered character dynamics, invite us to reconsider how such stories impact audiences and challenge societal norms.
As I journey through the adaptations, I’ll tackle the tough question of whether certain relationships enable abuse or encourage growth. Alyssa's evolution in the movie compared to the book offers a fresh depth to the narrative, adding complexity to her role as Lily’s confidante. The emotional resonance of Lily's ultimate decision in the film stirs powerful audience reactions, underscoring the poignant theme of ending cycles of harm. This episode invites you to ponder your own views, share your thoughts, and join a community eager to explore the intricate worlds of books and their cinematic counterparts.
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Welcome to Books vs Movies, the podcast where I set out to answer the age-old question is the book really always better than the movie? I'm Yuvia, an actress and book lover based out of New York City, and today I will be talking about Romper el Circulo or it Ends With Us, by Colleen Hoover and its 2024 adaptation. It Ends With Us, its 2024 adaptation. It Ends With Us. All right y'all, I have a lot of feelings about this book, and am I going to get as heated as the After we Collided episode? No, but I will say I had no interest in reading this book, but when the movie came out and I had no interest in watching the movie, but I was like you know what, this is the perfect opportunity to find out for myself what the big deal is. Now, I had heard, and the main reason I had no interest in reading this book was because I had heard many, many times that this book glamorizes abuse, and we all know how I feel about that. Again, refer back to the After we Collided episode to hear my full thoughts on that. But so I was like you know what? This is what I keep hearing, but I'm not going to know for sure until I read it until I watch the movie and I discover for myself and, if anything, we'll just have another rant episode where I continue to educate people, but that is not. I do have complicated feelings about this book and this movie and I will get into the glamorization aspect of it later, but just wanted to give that little disclaimer, all right. So I did have to read it in Spanish, because this is a very popular book and after reading it, I'm going to be honest, I don't know why, but anyway, yeah, this is, yeah, this is just, uh, okay, you know what? We're just going to get started, because because we should just get started, all right, so it Ends With Us was first published in 2016, and it follows Lily, who is our protagonist.
Speaker 1:She's never had any. She's had a difficult life growing up, but that doesn't mean that she isn't starting to live the life she wants to live, and her life seems to just get better after she meets Ryle Kincaid, a hot neurosurgeon who shows interest in her, and they start dating and things are going so well. Ryle has expressed many times that he has no interest in dating, but there's something about Lily that turns him into an honest man. However, things start happening in their relationship that have her questioning whether or not she should be with Ryle, especially after she reunites with Atlas Corrigan, her first love. The more she reminisces about her past with Atlas and Ryle's ugly side starts to come out, the more she realizes that her life maybe isn't as perfect as she thought.
Speaker 1:The 2024 adaptation of it Ends With Us stars Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, and is directed by Justin Baldoni as well, and it follows a woman named Lily who's reunited with her first love after starting a relationship with the nice neurosurgeon, and as things start happening, she must realize that she has to make a choice to better her future. So, yeah, I mean the film is, overall, a pretty faithful adaptation of the book. Nothing major that well. I mean, we're going to talk about the changes, as always, but this is. You know, after having a few adaptations, I was like I don't know how to talk about this. It's nice to just go back to the tried and true formula of you know what? This is a faithful adaptation and these are the changes.
Speaker 1:So the film starts off with Lily at her father's funeral and her mother asks her to give the eulogy. She doesn't know what to say, so she ends up just she gets up on the podium and ends up just leaving because she doesn't have anything to say about her father. And then we cut to her on a rooftop in Boston. Well, the book skips all that and we start straight on the roof. We do get told about what happened at the funeral a few hours earlier and that she also just did not say anything, except in the book. She just stays on the podium until finally someone takes her off. She doesn't just leave on her own, but the book starts us off on the rooftop and the film starts off with the funeral scene before cutting to the roof. And I just wanna say, okay, okay, I should probably just say this, because it just really boggles my mind.
Speaker 1:This is I had heard rumors of Colleen Hooper's naming ability, like the way she names her characters, and I didn't realize how bad it was until I read this book and I realized that her main character is named Lily Blossom Bloom and she's a florist. Yeah, great name, great name there, colleen, anyway. So, yeah, lily Blossom Bloom meets Ryle on this rooftop. It is a private rooftop in that it is an apartment building, so no one should be on that rooftop except people that live in this apartment building, but she somehow gets up there because she needs a place to think and her place isn't good enough. So she magically ends up on this rooftop and Ryle shows up and they meet. And I was very surprised at how much is revealed in this rooftop scene in the book, because it just comes right out and says it.
Speaker 1:So the main driving factor of this book is or the main storyline involves Lily and Ryle's relationship, and it turns out that Ryle is abusive, and we're going to get into little different nuances about why people thought it glamorizes abuse, but it is the story of an abusive relationship and I will say that apparently Okay, I'm just going to go right out and say it I think one of the reasons that this book gets accused of glamorizing abuse is because this is technically labeled as a romance book. It even won the Goodreads Choice Award in 2016 for best romance, and when the main love story that is making up this romance consists of an abusive one, I can see why that bothers me. I was under the impression that the abuse is kind of a twist, a plot twist in the book, so much so that people when it was like kind of spoiled for the film, although not very well, and I'll get into that people were upset that. So when I saw the trailer of it Ends With Us, there is this scene in which Ryle like you see him hit Lily, and so I mean I already knew this, that the main focus was abuse. But had I not known that before all this controversy, I would have known that by looking at the trailer At least that particular trailer, that's the only trailer I ever saw. I don't know if other trailers edited this out, because I know that there was like fans of the book were really, really upset that this was getting revealed in the trailer. So it's like no, it's supposed to be shocking and I was like, oh, okay, I mean I guess. So yeah, that's the main gist, and kind of part of the controversy is that this is labeled as a romance. But anyway, the book is labeled as a romance and I think that's kind of where the controversy started. I don't know how many people that were accusing it of glamorizing abuse actually read it. I think the different, like I said, the fact that it's called romance, just different aspects of it and the way it's marketed in the book world, I think kind of shocked people and said it was glamorizing abuse, but I'll get into a little bit more of that once I'm done talking about these differences, because that's just something that I want to have a really focused conversation on at the end, but anyway.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that ends up getting I watched the film first and then I read the book and one of the things that also ended up being kind of a plot twist in the film is that we ended up finding out that Lily's dad was abusive towards her mom growing up, and we learned this later on. So the film is told in flashbacks. We flash back and forth between Lily now and Lily then, and it's during one of the flashbacks that we see her father beating up her mother. So we have no idea for those of us that hadn't read the book, we have no idea that her father was abusive as well. In the book, like, she meets Atlas on this rooftop and they have their conversation of their naked truths conversation. When they reveal, like the naked truths about each other, I'm like one of the first things she tells him is like I had an abusive dad and I was at just at his funeral and I know what to say and I was like, wow, all right. So we're just, we're just learning this about her immediately. Ok, all right, let's, let's do this. It was. It was just kind of a shock because it's like this slow buildup to it in the film and the book just goes right out and says it but yeah, and you know, she one.
Speaker 1:One of the other twists we end up finding out in the film. So, again, these are actual twists If you see the film. First is that her father ends up beating up Atlas. Atlas is her very first boyfriend, her first love, whatever. He beats up Atlas to the point where, like, he gets beat up pretty, pretty bad, and this is the other thing she reveals on the roof. She's like my father was abusive to my mother and he ended up beating up my first boyfriend, mother, and he ended up beating up my first boyfriend. So it was like whoa, okay, we're just learning all this right up front, all right.
Speaker 1:Which I did like that change in the film, that we're getting these flashbacks and these little buildups to Lily and that we're actually getting to see this thing, because one of the things that really bugged me about the book is that this book is not told in flashbacks per se. So how we get Lily's backstory is through Lily's old diary entries. Lily, just as she meets Ryle, she starts like reminiscing about her first boyfriend and so she decides to go back and read her diary and the chapter will literally be like I felt like reading my diary and then we cut to her reading the diary and that's it. So it's not very interesting to read. It's a lot of telling us and not showing us. So I do like that the film actually showed us these flashbacks as opposed to just essentially what ends up being exposition through diary format.
Speaker 1:The most annoying or and yeah, I'm just going to say annoying thing is who Lily is writing these diary entries to. So Lily writes these diary entries as letters to Ellen. Yeah, ellen DeGeneres. I can definitely see why they did not keep her love of Ellen DeGeneres for the movie, considering everything that happened with Ellen and her not being considered a nice person anymore. But it's just like very jarring for this teenage girl to see how much this teenage girl loves Ellen. I mean, I don't know that it necessarily makes sense because I mean everyone is different, but like I didn't really know who Ellen DeGeneres was until I was an adult, I'm sure there are some teenagers out there that like looked up to Ellen and loved her, but that definitely seems more like a Colleen Hoover love for Ellen DeGeneres as opposed to like an organic what an actual teenage girl might like. So I don't know, just throwing that out there, but anyway.
Speaker 1:So in the film, like right from the start, lily is preparing to open up her flower shop and in the book, the first few chapters she starts off as like someone who works in marketing and then, and then she just decides to buy a flower shop because she genuinely loves flowers. And again, that that was kind of a good thing that they changed in the film. They just streamlined that because it's like there was nothing like her being starting off as a marketing person added nothing to the story other than she was a marketing person. And then she was like you know what I like? Flowers. I'm going to open up my flower shop. But anyway, while she's fixing up her flower shop, she ends up in the book.
Speaker 1:She ends up falling and breaking her ankle and this is this leads to one of the big, big red flags of Ryle in the book. But this doesn't happen in the film. She doesn't break her ankle and, additionally, her mom after her father dies, her mom is like, well, there's no reason for me to stay in Maine when you're in Boston. So I'm going to move to Boston. So her mom moves to Boston. And this does not happen in the film. I think that's just. I mean, I don't know why they changed that, but the mom is just like not an important character in the film. So I mean that's probably why, but anyway, so in the book again.
Speaker 1:So like six months pass between Lily and Ryle meeting and then them like they meet, and then six months pass without like they, without any contact of each other, and then Alyssa, who's Ryle's sister, walks in and is like I don't know what, I want to work for you at this flower shop. And Lily's like great, she hires Alyssa and then, after she breaks her ankle, like that's, she reunites with Ryle because, like Ryle and Alyssa's husband, marshall, come in and she's like, oh my gosh, my boss just broke her ankle. And then so she has to like Alyssa keeps working on on getting the flower shop ready to open while Lily is on bed rest and cue the red flag that we do not get in the film concerning Ryle and that is in the book, since she is on bed rest. Okay, so one of the things that is kind of like, like I said, orlando and I watched the film first and during the Naked Truth session in the film, the. So they only reveal two naked truths. They don't reveal everything that I told you. They revealed in the book, like she just reveals that she slept with a homeless kid as a teenager he was. She was the first person she ever slept with. And then his naked truth is he's like I want to f you. And it's supposed to be played off as, like it kind of seemed like they were going for like Ooh, that's hot. And I'm like watching that, I was like that might that work on someone? Sure, I don't know that it would work on a lot of people, though, and the fact that we're supposed to think it's cute, it's just not working, but anyway. So he does say that in the book as well. He's like I want to F you.
Speaker 1:And then something happens and they end up going their separate ways for six months, but anyway. So she's on bed rest. She lives in an apartment building and one day, while she's in her apartment, she hears knocking and she goes to the door and it's Ryle and she's like how do you know where I live? And he's like you told me when we met six months ago where you lived, but you never told me your apartment number. So I literally knocked on 29 doors to find out where you live, to tell you that I just have to have sex with you because if I don't, I'm just going to lose my mind. And she's like oh, I mean, I've never had anyone knock on 29 doors just to have sex with me. Like okay, come in. And then she's like I need to get ready because I haven't like groomed in a while, because I haven't needed to. So just wait for me while I like shower and get ready and groom and stuff.
Speaker 1:And when she comes back out he's asleep in her bed and yeah, but it's one of those things that's like again, are we supposed to think this is cute? Or are you intentionally like showing us that Ryle is like I'm reading this and I'm like that is a red flag. But honestly, I'm not sure if Colleen Hoover intended that to be a red flag. If I'm being quite honest, like I think that she was trying to show Ryle's charm and can-do attitude. I don't know. I don't know. That's just my speculation. I feel like that was not meant to be a red flag. But I'm reading this and I'm like that is a red flag. So if anyone is listening to this, that is not cute. Like that's a red flag. Okay, like no one should be that corny to sleep with you.
Speaker 1:That they have to knock on 29 doors. Like they know where you work, they can get your number and you know if you want to have a one night stand with this person, you can figure that out later. But there's ways to do this that are not creepy and that was really creepy. But anyway, let's flash forward to, like I said, that doesn't happen in the book. They kind of just in the film. I'm sorry the whole knocking on the 29 doors doesn't happen in the book, they kind of just in the film. I'm sorry the whole knocking on the 29 doors doesn't happen in the film. She doesn't break her ankle.
Speaker 1:In the film they kind of just start finding ways to connect little by little and still a red flaggy kind of way, because it reaches a point where he keeps saying like let's do it. Like I just need to have sex with you and then I'll be able to get you out of my system. Like let's just do it and again be able to get you out of my system. Like let's just do it again. It's I think it's supposed to be like going for charming, but it's not, but anyway. So the different red flags are waving in the book and the film, but anyway, let's flash forward to Alyssa's party, alyssa's birthday party. Alyssa invites Lily over to her birthday party and Alyssa lives in the same building as Ryle and Alyssa lives in the same building as Ryle. Ryle lives on the building of the rooftop where Lily was on that first. Like Ryle does live there, so he has access to the rooftop. I still don't know how Lily got up there.
Speaker 1:But anyway, we have the gay friend trope who only shows up for this one scene and we never see him again and he's just there to like plump up Lily's breast so that she looks hot at this party and then he leaves and we never hear from this gay best friend again. So gay, gay best friend, but only there for that reason. But anyway. So she takes her, her gay best friend, to Alyssa's party and at one point, like Ryle shows up and he just like scoops her up in his arms and he's like I gotta take this girl somewhere. And he just takes her to like his bedroom and the gay best friend's just like, yeah, you go girl. And it's like you're just gonna let her, him take her away, like you're not gonna question who this guy is. Like I would understand if she had been like flirting with him all night or you know, she said, hey, like I'm interested in this guy, but like I don't know if it's because like the gay stereotype of like you go girl, like go get your man, but it's like I think any gay best friend, like any straight girl friend, would be like what do you do? You can't just take her to your room, we don't know who you are. And if at that point she was like, no, it's fine, I want to go with him, that'd be one thing, but he just, he's just like. He like literally just takes her to his room and the gay best friend is like, okay, you go girl. It's like no, I'm pretty sure he would be like Do I know you? No, you can't just take my friend away from me, like when she's like semi intoxicated. Anyway, I guess I am getting a lot more heated up than I thought I was, but you know what. What's going to get me heated is just how not well written this book is, as opposed to the glamorization of the abuse, and we'll get into my thoughts on that. But anyway, yeah, this book is just so Okay.
Speaker 1:Going back on the topic of names really quick, because I just Okay. So her name is Lily Blossom Bloom. She's a flor, a florist, okay. And then I saw like two different youtube comments that said basically the same thing and I was like, wow, that's yeah. So again, lily blossom bloom, florist ryle is there to just get riled up. Atlas is her whole world. Can you be more on the nose with these names? No, you, you cannot Like.
Speaker 1:Moving on, so they do not end up sleeping together at Alyssa's party, either in the book or the film. And the gay best friend is only in the book, he's not in the film. Like, I don't blame them for cutting out this pointless gay friend who's just there to be a stereotype, but okay, this is my comment for this next thing that I'm going to share with you. This has nothing to do with the difference With this book. I was literally just writing things down that I was like what the hell did? I just read, and this is one of those moments. So again, they don't sleep with each other.
Speaker 1:At Alyssa's party she ends up going home, she ends up reading another one of her diary entries and she's talking about Atlas and she's showing Atlas how to garden. And then Atlas has Lily showing him like, how to compost and for whatever reason, there's cow manure in this compost. Side note there's no manure in compost. That's not what composting is. Manure is could be in like fertilizer, but not compost. But anyway, that's not the point. The point is he's they're like composting with this cow manure and he starts oh my gosh, he starts rubbing Kalmanior on her arms and she literally says Ellen, I've never felt so turned on in my life. I don't know what I just read. I don't even have any other comments other than what the hell? So let's just move on, because what the hell?
Speaker 1:So in the film, ryle lives in the apartment next to Alyssa. In the book, ryle lives in the apartment next to Alyssa. In the book, ryle lives in the same apartment as Alyssa. So in the film, after the Party, alyssa shows up to Ryle's apartment with coffee and she finds Lily there and she's like oh my gosh, like you can't sleep with my brother, he doesn't do well with commitments. Like he's going to break your heart, like don't be with him. And then? But in the book, as I said, ryle lives with Alyssa and Marshall and the next morning Lily wakes up and she's in the kitchen and Alyssa shows up and she's just like, oh hey, what's going on, girl, like nice to see you. She just like. She's like completely unfazed by the fact that, like Lily's in her like spent the night with Ryle.
Speaker 1:I will say Alyssa in the book is a lot like, Alyssa in the film is a little bit more. I'm glad they changed this as well, because Alyssa in the book is a lot more like, oh, my brother's so great. Like he's going to break your heart, but since he's giving it, since there's something about you that like he actually wants to date you. Like once she gets used to the idea that like I mean like in the film she's like oh my gosh, you can't date my brother. And in the book she's like oh, yeah, yeah, like I know what kind of person my brother is, but like date him, it'll be fine, and she's just. She's like aren't you Okay, whatever? Like I love my brother to bits, but like if he was an a-hole, I would tell people that he was an a-hole, like no, anyway, whatever. So in in the book, eventually, like after the party, like he comes over again and they finally sleep together.
Speaker 1:In the film, lily waits until they're officially a couple before sleeping with him and this is just like a very clear boundary that she sets in both the book and the film. She ends up changing her mind, which is fine in the book, but she's very like I don't believe in one night stands. I want, I need to know that like someone genuinely loves me and is committed to me in order for me to like sleep with them. And she ends up changing her mind in the book, like I said, which is fine, you're allowed to change your mind about those sort of things. In the film, she doesn't and they don't sleep together until they're officially a couple. What was that? Oh, sorry, if you heard that that was my. My dad is drilling. So just if you hear the drill going on, sorry about that.
Speaker 1:Perks of perks of still recording while I'm home with my, with my family. So, okay, okay. This is another one of the moments in the book that I was like what? So, okay, ryle is going to meet Lily's mom for the first time. They're getting ready to go to the restaurant, him and Lily, and he's like you know, my lips are my favorite feature of yours. And she's like, oh, I got to watch you around. My mom then, because we have the exact same lips.
Speaker 1:Who says that Like, what the hell? Who says that no, no, no, like I get told I look a lot like my mom Doesn't mean I'm going to like bring that into a conversation with like, no, no, no, no, no, like, why, why, no, why, why. Anyway, what does that say? I'm sorry, I'm reading my notes and I'm trying to decipher what this says. So this is definitely concerning Atlas. But since I can't even decipher this, no, it's not important, let's move on. So in the book sorry, not Ryle Atlas spends the night several times.
Speaker 1:So Atlas is does not have a home. He's squatting in the house across the street from Lily. He, his parents are like they don't really care about him. So he decides it's better to just like squat and figure things out than stay living with them. So once he and lily like he and lily start having this connection. But he ends up spending the night several times and in the film that's not really implied he. He does go over every day to like use her shower and eat and stuff, but in terms of like spending the night, he doesn't really do do that In the book Lily. So, as I said, in the book Ryle moves.
Speaker 1:Ryle lives with his sister, alyssa, so when he and Lily become an official couple, ryle ends up moving in with Lily at her apartment and he ends up. So in the film Alyssa and Marshall have their baby and it is like after they, after Alyssa gives birth, and everyone's in the hospital room just being like congratulations, look at your baby, she's so cute. Ryle proposes to Lily right there in front of Alyssa and Marshall and the baby. But in the book Ryle ends up proposing to Lily after she meets his parents. The parents don't exist in the film, but she meets his parents and then she and Alyssa are like having a conversation. She's like I'd marry Ryle right now and Ryle's like I would marry you too. Let's get married, and that's how he proposes to her. And yeah, it's after she meets his parents, not after the birth of the baby.
Speaker 1:But anyway, one thing that I didn't like about the film so there's three instances of abuse in the book and the film and the first two instances of abuse in the film are kind of ambiguous. You're not really sure if it was on purpose or if it was a legit accident. I knew it because, like I said I had already, I already knew what the controversy was. But even watching the film I was like, wait, so is it? Is this, was it an accident or? And I was like, oh okay, so I'm guessing this is what's going to end up. This is going to end up being the plot twist of the film is that it's abuse. It's legit abuse as opposed to like was it or was it not? And in the book it's very clearly abuse.
Speaker 1:So the first instance, which is kind of played ambiguously in the book too, I will say that is Lili. Ryle has like a big surgery coming up and he's making a casserole and when it's done, like he reaches for the casserole without putting enough in it and he touches the thing and it burns his hand and he starts freaking out because he has this big surgery and he has his burnt hand and Lili starts laughing because she's kind of tipsy and it's funny. So he ends up hitting her and she's kind of like what just happened? And he's like I'm so sorry, like I didn't mean to, it was an accident, but you were laughing at me, and blah, blah, blah. So it is played. That first instance is played a little bit more ambiguously in the book. So she's kind of like I don't know if it was. He says it was an accident. I don't, I was kind of tipsy so I'm not really sure if it was or not. But I'm going to choose to believe him. But if it happens again, I'm not like that's, that's it, like I'm not going to allow this to happen again.
Speaker 1:In the second instance of abuse he pushes her down the stairs and in the book she's very aware that he pushes her down the stairs and he ends, he, he keeps trying to gaslight her and saying I didn't push you down the stairs, it was an accident. And she's very much like no, like I felt you put, like, put your hands on me and forcibly like force me down, like you pushed me down the stairs, like there was intention behind that push, I felt it. And he keeps trying to be like no, no, it was an accident. And in the film it kind of cuts. So we see her run up to him at the stairs and then she gets in front of him and then she screams and it cuts to her in bed as he's icing a wound that she got on her forehead after she fell, and it's kind of like.
Speaker 1:The film definitely plays it a lot more ambiguously and in the book she's very aware, definitely the second time, that it's like abuse, and so I wish that the film hadn't made it a plot twist. Like, as I said, this ends up being the plot twist of the film. Again, not much of a plot twist. As I said, this ends up being the plot twist of the film. Again, not much of a plot twist, but it ends up being the plot twist where she's looking back on the instances of abuse. She's like making it very clear that it is abuse makes it. There's just a lot more nuance in that and we see the reason. We see the reasons why Lily decided to stay and, as opposed to kind of just I don't know it I feel like it made her staying with him a lot more. I don't know how to phrase it, but it was. There's a lot of reasons why people stay, whether it be manipulation, whether they're scared of leaving threats, whatever you know, whatever it is, and there's a little bit more of that nuance in the book because we see why she decides to stay and in the film it's kind of just like well, of course she's staying. We don't know if he was actually hitting her or not until plot twist he really was hit. So I don't like that. The film changed that and yeah, that's something I'll go a little bit more into in my wrap up, but that's something that I just wanted to bring up because it was something that kind of like, after reading it in the book and just having that little extra nuance, I wish that the film had kept it.
Speaker 1:But anyway, in the in the book when Ryle and Lily get married, it ends up being a shotgun wedding in Vegas. In the film, if I'm remembering correctly, it's like a courthouse wedding. It's definitely not a Vegas wedding. But anyway, after they're married and they go back sorry, this is this is before the wedding. But after the first time Ryle puts his hands on Lily, after he reaches in there and he burns his hand and he hits her they go to the restaurant. So when Ryle meets Lily's mom for the first time, they go to a restaurant that ends up being owned by Atlas, called BIB, which stands for Best in Boston. In the film they changed this to Roots. I'm glad they changed it to Roots. I don't like the name Bib, but anyway they realize that they go to this restaurant and Lily finds out that Ryle works there. At the time she thinks he's just a waiter. She doesn't realize that he's the owner slash head chef. But later on, after the first time that Ryle puts his hands on Lily, he and Lily and Alyssa and Marshall end up going on a double date to Bibb because Alyssa really wants to try that restaurant. And while they're at this, while they're having this double date, alice sees the bruise on Lily, like the purple eye that Lily has from where Ryle hit her, and he sees that Ryle's knuckles are screwed up. Whatever happens to your knuckles after you punch someone. He sees that that's there's something wrong with his knuckles. So he puts two. He puts them two together and confronts Ryle at the restaurant and is like and they get. They end up getting into this fight, which I'm okay.
Speaker 1:Atlas isn't much better when it comes to the red flags. I just want to say just overall. Atlas is very much aware that Lily's mom was abused Like he had heard the incidents involving when her dad would beat up her mom. Like he heard those and so he knows, and I can understand why he's worried for Lily, because he knows, like the history that she grew up in, and like any good friend, like if I found out that, like my friend was getting beat up by their boyfriend, I would want to intervene as well. However, you don't intervene by confronting the abuser in front of the victim, like you're just, you're just asking for another abusive situation to happen when they get home. So that's not, that's not, that's not the way to help someone that's in an abusive relationship. But anyway, whatever.
Speaker 1:So they ended up getting in a fight, ryle and Atlas, and Ryle like. And then, like Lily had already said like, oh, my first boyfriend's name was Atlas. And then, while they're getting in this fight, like Lily's like Atlas stop. And he's like, oh so, this is Atlas. And then so that, of course, just makes things worse. So Lily's like I didn't know that, like that, like I didn't know that he worked there and that's why I tried to like get us to go to a different restaurant than that one. But you, like, you insisted that it be that one. So, whatever. And she's like but I promise I won't go there again and then I'm not in contact with him, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:So in the film, after the confrontation between Atlas and Ryle, atlas ends up going to the flower shop and Alyssa's like so if we can't go to that restaurant anymore, why is he allowed to come here? And Lily's like I'll get rid of him, don't worry about it. So, but Atlas is showing up to give Lily his phone number in case she ever needs help. But in the book again, alyssa is a much better character in the film than she is in the book. In the book, atlas shows up to the book the flower shop and again she's like why is he allowed to be here? And Lily's like I'm sorry. And Alyssa's like no, it's all right, I'm actually I'm okay with him being here because his food is so good. I forgive him for, like, getting in a fight with my brother, which like okay, odd, sure, but anyway, after the second instance of abuse, this is where Ryle pushes Lily down the stairs.
Speaker 1:So in the film so we end up finding out at one point that Ryle and Alyssa had a brother at one point named Emerson. In the film, alyssa is the one that tells Lily what happened to Emerson and she so, after Lily confides in Alyssa, like, hey, your brother's been abusing me and so, and Alyssa, she's like your brother's been abusing me. And Alyssa's like, okay, well, don't get back together with him. And then, while they're having this conversation, lily's like so what happened? What happened to Emerson? Alyssa is the one that reveals what happened to Emerson to Lily, and what ended up happening is that Ryle, when he and Emerson were little boys, ryle shot and killed Emerson because they found their dad's gun and he's a little boy, so he was like playing with it and he ended up accidentally shooting Emerson and he died.
Speaker 1:But in the book, alyssa the Enabler she's like I don't, so I think, mind you, ryle's not telling the whole truth, but it's still like he admits that, like something happened between him and Lily that caused them to fight. And Alyssa the Enabler's like Ryle, you have to tell Lily about Emerson, that way she understands what goes on, what's going on or what happens to you because of what happened. And then she leaves and Ryle's the one that ends up telling Lily about Emerson and he's like, yeah, it's because of that trauma, because of what I did to my brother, that like I have these black, these emotional blackouts in which I don't realize what I'm doing. And that's what happened last night, and I'm so sorry that I pushed you down the stairs and this is at like first he tries to gaslight her and then he, he apologizes for it and he blames it on his emotional blackouts. And that's why Lily decides to stay that time around, cause she's like, oh okay, he, just, he just he can't control himself. Like he, like he has these emotional blackouts, he doesn't realize what he's doing. Like I can fix him, ladies, you can never fix him. I just want to say but when all of this happens, they're already married at this point, but after they're married and he, he ends up buying the apartment next or not next to Alyssa, but he ends up buying an apartment in the, in the same building as Alyssa in the book, and that's how she ends up in the same building as Alyssa and Marshall, because, remember, at this point they've been living in her apartment. But then he ends up, like surprising her with an apartment, which, again, this is always taken to be like this cute kind of show of buying an apartment, buying a home, buying anything like that. It's always a conversation you should have with your partner Like this should you should never just buy something, that you should never buy a home without consulting your partner, but anyway. So this is how she ends up moving into Alyssa's building In the film. She moves in with Ryle since he has his own apartment from the beginning, but anyway, in the in the film, the. So the breaking point for Lily ends up well, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, the third instance of abuse is when Ryle so in the film he ends up. He finds her. So in the film, lily is one of the top 10 new businesses in Boston and Ryle has her read, like, the review for Roots. Again, that's the name of Atlas's restaurant in the film. He has her read the review because Atlas won the number one spot on that top 10 new businesses list and he ends up revealing why he called the restaurant Roots and he alludes to Lily, and it is at this point that Ryle tries. He like there's a tattoo that Lily has that's in the shape of a heart. So Atlas made her a heart out of. He like carved's a tattoo that lily has that's in the shape of a heart that atlas. So atlas made her a heart out of. He like carved it for her, and so the heart tattoo is in the shape of this carved heart and so ryle ends up like trying to bite it off. And then he ends up trying to sexually assault her in the.
Speaker 1:This does happen in the book too, but in in the book Alyssa gives birth to her and Marshall's baby, riley, that they named after Ryle because, whatever, again, we're giving these kids great names, anyway. So Alyssa has just given birth to Riley and it's like this really happy, momentous occasion. And then Lily goes home and this ends up happening with the whole reading, the review of the top 10 lists, and he does end up trying to sexually assault her. In the film the baby's birth was where Ryle proposed to her. In the book, the baby's birth is what leads to the final instance of abuse In the film.
Speaker 1:After this happens, lily manages to get away from Ryle and she goes to Roots and asks Atlas for help. In the book she again she had Atlas had given her his phone number. So she calls Atlas and and Atlas actually goes to the her apartment her and Ryle's apartment and picks her up and takes her to the hospital. So after, after, so we end up finding out while she's at the hospital getting checked out by the doctors and stuff that she's pregnant and the film pretty much like fast forwards after this to her back in her own apartment and she's like getting ready for the arrival for the baby, and then she's she needs help building the crib. So that's when she calls Ryle and calls and talks to Ryle for the arrival for the baby and then she's she needs help building the crib. So that's when she calls Ryle and calls and talks to Ryle for the first time since he tried to sexually assault her and he builds the crib for her In the in the book since. So after this happens, after he he tries to sexually assault her, he like he's like I'm sorry for what I did to you. I'm sorry I hurt you. I'm going to go to England for a few months to give you your space. And then so he like goes to England and he comes back unexpectedly a lot sooner than he said, and then that's when he finds out that she's pregnant but he goes back to living with Alyssa and then when she needs help, he just like goes downstairs to like build the crib for her and then, yeah, like it ends with Lily giving birth to her daughter Emerson.
Speaker 1:Wait till I tell you her full name, because we get her full name in the book, but in the film we just find out her name is Emerson. Yes, she named her daughter after her abusive husband's dead brother, anyway. So, as I said, in the book she and Atlas like she ends up getting Atlas into Ellen and they're so they love Ellen DeGeneres, and so they end up like a common phrase between them ends up being like keep on swimming. So like they say that to each other, to like motivate each other along the way. And so that is how in the book we end up with Emerson Dory. I really wish I was making that up, but I'm not Emerson Dory. We got Lily Blossom, bloom, ryle, who's there to rile things up, atlas, who's her whole world, and Emerson Dory, just you know, remind her to just keep swimming.
Speaker 1:So in the film I mean in the book and the film she gives birth to Emerson and then it ends with her saying I want a divorce. And he's like no, we can work things out. And she's like what would you do if your daughter came to you one day and told you dad, my husband hit me? What would you do if your daughter came to you one day and said dad, my partner pushed me down the stairs. Dad, my partner tried to sexually assault me and Ryle's like I would tell her to leave. And then he leaves. And then we flash forward to in the book.
Speaker 1:Lily is dropping Emerson off at Ryle's. They're now divorced but they have joint custody, so it's Ryle's turn to have her. So she's dropping Emerson off with Ryle's. They're now divorced but they have joint custody, so it's Ryle's turn to have her. So she's dropping Emerson off with Ryle. And then she bumps into Atlas and she's like guess what? It starts with us, because that's the name of the sequel In the film. She bumps into him and there's still this connection between them and that's so. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:So some other major changes that really alter the course of the book and film in the book, lily is 23 and Ryle is 29. And in the film they're both aged up to Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively's age. So they're like mid to late 30s Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively's age. So they're like mid to late 30s. And the reason for that is that Colleen Hoover herself has said many times she's like the trendy thing to do at the time was to write books about college students or college aged students. So I didn't realize that Ryle was way too young to be like a successful neurosurgeon there's no way he would be 29 and like a successful neurosurgeon. So we had to age them up to the film to accommodate that. So that fixes that.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that like kind of bugs me, is bug me is like another red flag, and this is just in general is if, like you're still hung up on your ex, like still have very, very strong feelings for them years down the line, like that's kind of a red flag. Like there should reach a point in which, like that doesn't mean that you can't look back fondly on your ex, or like if you reconnect you might end up falling for each other again or anything like that. But just in terms of like you still have feelings for them, like the strong feelings that Lily and Atlas have for each other, like that is not healthy. It's really not healthy. But in the book I was able to excuse it a little bit more because they were so young, like they're 23, and they were their first like heist, they were their first loves, their first boyfriend, girlfriend situation, just a lot of firsts, and they were their first like. They were their first loves, their first boyfriend, girlfriend situation, just a lot of firsts. And this happened while they were still in high school. So I mean, 23 is like quite a bit of time has happened, but it's still kind of like. You're still kind of in that age where, like, you can look like, where you can kind of romanticize like your high school boyfriends and girlfriends a little bit more than when you're like at this point they're in their 30s. So it's like it's been more than 10 years, like I think that's a little bit. That's that's a little bit. You know, you need to watch out for that. So those were, those were like the other major changes.
Speaker 1:But all right, my final verdict on whether or not I think this glamorizes abuse I don't. As I said, I have a lot of passionate feelings because of how this book was written. It's not written very well. I don't know that I am interested in reading any more Colleen Hoover books and I, after reading this one, I really don't understand the hype. I really don't. But in terms of, does this glamorize abuse? I really don't. But in terms of, does this glamorize abuse? No, I really don't think so. To me glamorizing abuse. To recap on After we Collided. To me that is glamorizing abuse, because it is a bunch of behavior that is not okay, that is not acceptable. That we should be telling people like this is straight up abuse but we're disguising it as love. That is not love.
Speaker 1:In this one, lily is very much aware that what Ryle is doing to her is abuse and that it is not okay and that she should not put up with it. The first time, the first instance of abuse, she stays because she is. She isn't sure if it was. She knows that Ryle shouldn't have put his hands on her, but because he tells her it was an accident and she was a little bit tipsy. So her memory is a little bit foggy. She's not sure if he actually did abuse her or not. So she stays. The second time she's ready to leave him, but after she finds out about Emerson and his trauma and the fact that he's having these emotional blackouts, she stays for that because she again thinks he doesn't realize what he's doing and we can get him the help to like fix this. And again, that is not how that works. The moment someone puts their hands on you, you need to leave, and I know it's not always that easy. But I'm telling you now it's not going to change, it's not going to get better, so you need to leave. And then the third instance.
Speaker 1:After the third instance, lily is still like she's aware again what he did is not okay and that she should not put up with that. But she loves him and she's about to have a child with him. And there are a lot of people that stay in abusive relationships for that reason. They don't want to break up their families. They legitimately love this person. They don't want to break up with them. So those are the different reasons. But it is never like he hit me because he loved me. He did this because he loved me. Oh, the fact that he tried to sexually assault me means that he loves me, which is what, after we Collided, would do.
Speaker 1:This does not do that. This is not glamorizing abuse, because she knows it's not okay and it covers some of the reasons why someone might choose to stay. So no, I don't think it glamorizes abuse. I do think there's absolutely no. It is way too easy on Ryle, like there's really no repercussion for Ryle other than she divorces him, but other than that there's nothing. Like his sister doesn't hold him accountable, his best friend, who's Marshall doesn't hold him accountable. He gets a daughter named after his brother. Like I, if anything, I feel like this takes it way, way, way too easy on Ryle, and there should have been more of a I don't want to say punishment, but there should have been more repercussions for him than there ended up being, and that would be. My main problem with the book is that there just isn't enough repercussions for this abuser.
Speaker 1:But Colleen Hoover does have an author's note at the end in which she says that this book was inspired by her parents' relationship. Her parents her dad was abusive towards her mom and they ended up divorcing when Colleen was two, and she dedicates the book to her father too. She dedicates it by saying to my dad, who tried his very best not to show his worst and I am not here to say what you should or. Everyone chooses to have relationships with the people that hurt them for a variety of different reasons. Colleen chose to forgive her father and have a relationship with him, and that is the best choice that was for her, and if someone chooses the complete opposite of that, that's the perfect choice for you. I'm not here to say that one is better than the other, and so I feel like this does explain, and she does say in her author's note while her dad was married to her mom, he was an alcoholic, which is what made him extremely abusive, and after the divorce he got his act together and he was not like. He never abused her or her sisters and he was not abusive with future partners either. So this is just one kind of abusive relationship in which maybe Ryle is like her father and he gets his act together and he's never abusive towards their daughter, even though he was abusive towards her.
Speaker 1:So I think that's why people think that this glamorizes abuse because of that portrayal. But this is based on Colleen's experiences. This is one kind of abusive relationship. So long story short. No, I don't think that this book or film ultimately glamorizes abuse, and this is told from a particular point of view. This is Colleen Hoover's point of view and obviously her experience influenced how the story she decided to tell. But no, I don't think it glamorizes abuse. It does make it very clear that the abuse that Lily is experiencing is not okay and it's not hiding as an act of love like in After we Collided. And yes, I'm going to keep bringing that up because that's not the point of this episode.
Speaker 1:That being said, I can see why people feel like this glamorizes abuse, and I think this mainly stems from the way that the book and the film were promoted. It's kind of hard to feel, it's kind of hard to not feel like it isn't glamorizing abuse when this is labeled as a romance book, and in terms of the film, I mean, we had, you know, a pretty viral TikTok of Blake Lively telling people grab your friends, wear your florals and go watch the movie, as if this was going to be like a fun girls night out rom-com type of thing. So, yeah, definitely problematic in that sense. I don't know. Obviously, all of that promotional material did bug me, but I'm not here really to talk about that, although I will say that that did make me angry. The way it was promoted made me angry, so I rated the film three and a half stars, and I rated the book three stars as well. Well, three stars. So the winner is the film, but, honestly, do I think this film and book glamorizes abuse? You know, I already said no.
Speaker 1:The biggest crime for both of these, though, is just how dang boring they both were. The film was so slow and just so boring. And the book was just worse because it was so much telling and not showing. And those damn diaries, entries to Ellen, oh my gosh, it was just boring. It was just boring, boring, boring, boring.
Speaker 1:Honestly, you can skip either, you can skip both. In my opinion, you can skip both. You don't need to read them or see the film. But clearly I'm the minority in this. This Colleen Hoover has a lot of devoted fans. This book has a lot of devoted fans and, as I said, orlando and I watched this and both of us were bored.
Speaker 1:But clearly this film was speaking to a lot of people because at the end, when Lily tells Emerson that it ends with us and she decides to ultimately break the cycle of abuse, we heard sniffling in the audience, so clearly there were some people that were getting hit hard by it. But in my opinion it's not worth watching, it's not worth reading. But you know, if you're one of those people that was and I want to say that if you're one of those people that was clearly affected by this book or this film, you're allowed to feel that way. This is just my opinion. Your opinion does not have to match my opinion, and I just want to throw that out there, because people get so defensive sometimes. But anyway, that is it for this episode and I felt like there was something else I wanted to add, but clearly it's not important. Thank you for tuning in, leave a rating and a review and tell your friends all about this podcast. It means so much to have a little book versus movies community and I'll see you next time. Bye.